Revised Barbarian Class

Revised Fighter Class

Epic Advice Column

Epic Demographics

Epic Encounter Levels

Superhero Relativity

Absolutes: Part 4

Absolutes: Part 3

Absolutes: Part 2

Absolutes: Part 1

THE THEORY OF SUPERHERO RELATIVITY

Use of the term 'Superhero' here is not done in the course of trade and is not intended as a challenge to any trademarks.

Addendum (16th May 2006): I added the sections on Modifiers and Outcomes at the bottom of the page.

The following represents an attempt to better understand and discern the power of comic book characters. The initial idea stemmed from a number of debates revolving around the comicbook version of the god Odin.

I should at this point indirectly thank my sparring partners in this debate (Norvell, ShinAkuma and Imperial among a few others).

When no specific answer fitted the problem, I realised that a more fluid system was required. This gave rise to the idea that both the high-end and low-end showings were simultaneously valid and that a lot really depended on the particular writer at the time.

eg. From what I have observed, Jim Starlin writes his cosmic characters in terms of the forthcoming low-end showings whereas Mike Oeming seems to go for the higher-end showings.

Starlin: Infinity Crusade (Silver Surfer needs amped to destroy a moon), Infinity Gauntlet (Celestials attack Thanos by hurling planets at him), Infinity Abyss (Omega killed by explosion just beyond Planetary level), Thanos (Galactus almost killed by explosion just beyond Planetary level).

Oeming: Stormbreaker (Beta Ray Bill destroys planet, Stardust opens Black Hole).

However, once we outline the high and low end showings, a third, the Median Showing can be determined.

POWER

Problem #1: How do we rate the power of such beings?

Solution: See Table One.

Tier: 15 tiers of power ranging from Primary Human to Supreme Being.

Example: Where possible two examples are given, the first is for a character primarily adept at energy blasts, the second is for a character who relies almost primarily on brute force. Although from Tertiary Cosmic Abstract upwards I don't know if their are any beings who get by on strength alone. Can anyone suggest such a character?

Low-end/Median/High-end Showings: Basically outlines the characters one-shot power, whether it be from energy blasts or strength (or in some cases both). Where no showing is given assume destructive capabilities lie somewhere between the showings immediately above and below.

Evidence Supporting Low-end Showings

1. Thor #300: Odin + Zeus + Vishnu combine their power to blast a Celestial; the blast is said to strike with power enough to knock a planet from orbit.
2. Infinity Gauntlet #5: Celestials attack Thanos by hurling planets at him.
3. Thanos #6: Galactus said to have a 60% chance of surviving a planet destroying explosion.
4. Thanos #9: Maker/Kosmos creates a blast akin to about 1 gigaton (according to the crater size)
5. What If #32: Living Tibunal causes a star to go nova to defeat Korvac, that doesn't work, so the LT runs away.
6. Infinity Crusade #4: Silver Surfer has to absorb energy from the sun to the point where he almost goes insane to destroy a small moon.

Evidence Supporting High-end Showings

1. Silver Surfer #78: Morg (with Waters of Life) destroys a planet.
2. Thor #144: Odin vs. Forsung (with the combined power of the Enchanters) battling for possession of Odins Rune Wand destroy stars and planets.
3. Stormbreaker #3: Beta Ray Bill destroys a planet, and Stardust creates a black hole.
4. Thor #513: Odin (weakened) vs. Seth purportedly destroy a dead galaxy.
5. Silver Surfer Annihilation #1: Silver Surfer creates a black hole.
6. Tyrant vs. Galactus purportedly destroy galaxies.
7. Thor #337: Surtur destroys a galaxy (or certainly most of one...given Beta Ray Bills planet was still intact).

If you have any other examples of either high or low-end showings let me know (by emailing craig@immortalshandbook.com) and I will add them to the list.

STRENGTH

The following Table is an attempt to outline what the strength ranks mean in terms of raw tonnage. Its worth noting that I'm trying to show lifting power, not pushing power. In the real world, strongmen can push/pull objects many orders of magnitude heavier than they can lift, and thats counting friction. You would envision comic book characters pushing/pulling a celestial body (in a frictionless environment) many orders of magnitude beyond their actual pressing capabilities. I would proffer, as a general rule of thumb, that their pushing/pulling power could go as high as 2-4 tiers/ranks beyond their lifting power.

NB. A few of the approximate masses attributed to celestial bodies are out by a few orders of magnitudes (The Sun is 1E30 Tons, Galaxy should be 1E41 Tons for instance, Super-cluster could be 1E52, Universe is probably 1E63+). Although obviously these things do vary by orders of magnitude, so, for the sake of maintaining balance I kept it all increasing at the same rate (from Class 100 onwards at least).

RELATIVITY

Problem #2: When Character A is struck by a Character B (who isn't pulling his punches) who is many times stronger (possibly even millions or billions of times stronger), why isn't Character A vapourised by the energy of the punch/blast?

Solution: The simple answer is that the science is of virtually no importance in determining comic book battles. However, the inferred tier/rank is of paramount importance, as that determines, roughly how the fight is going to unfold. See Table Three.

So what use is the science bit then? The science comes into play against inanimate objects (cars, buildings, moons etc.), not other characters.

• Q: Okay so what does the above Table mean?
• A: Basically it explains the visual effects of Character B striking Character A, even if the strength difference is technically a billion fold or more.

Example (Mangog vs. Thor): While we can't say for sure exactly how strong both Mangog and Thor are, we do know that Mangog is much stronger than Thor, possibly 3 tiers stronger (Making Mangog roughly a quodrillion times stronger than Thor). In those fights Mangog clearly dominates Thor and is able to K.O. Thor after a few landed shots.

MODIFIERS

Okay, based on the initial Forum feedback I have decided to add a section on the various things that can modify Super-hero versus match-ups and throw the above tables out of whack...if not addressed.

1. Plot Devices: A plot device is any sort of 'maguffin' that changes the outcome of an event from improbable to possible. A temporary boost (or penalty) to a characters power. Obvious plot devices include Thor's Belt (boost), Superman 'sundipping' (boost), Thor deciding not to use Mjolnir in a fight (penalty).
2. Hero vs. Villain: What separates good versus evil, is the formers predisposition towards self sacrifice in the face of adversity.Therefore we can assume that in any same tier match-up, a hero will ultimately defeat the villain, because the hero is less selfish and willing to do what it takes to save the day.
3. Jobber Aura: Some characters are just so darn popular that their respective companies can't bear to see them lose to opponents even those notably more powerful (Superman vs. Darkseid anyone). Of course this inevitably hurts the opponent more than it benefits the hero, but most companies don't seem to mind as long as their character ends up looking winning. Depending on the popularity of the character in question you could see them defeating opponents one or possibly even two tiers (in extreme cases) beyond them in power.
4. Power Set: Some characters, notably energy/magic/reality manipulators are far more versatile that you just can't see them losing to same tier brawlers. Treat brawlers as one tier weaker versus such manipulators.

OUTCOMES

If we assume that same tier battles are roughly 50/50 (though see Modifiers above), then a one tier difference will probably mean 75/25. A two tier difference (probably the logical extreme that could be overturned) would be 87.5/12.5.

Lets look at a few recent Forum versus match-ups and see how they unfold.

1. Kurse vs. Stardust: Kurse starts one tier higher, but his inferior Power Set drops him down one tier. Both are generally depicted as villains. Neither commands any Jobber Aura. Outcome: 50/50, could go either way.
2. Tyrant vs. Zeus (Marvel): Tyrant is one tier higher, same Power Set. Zeus is a heroic character (more or less), but he can't draw level to take the win. Neither commands any Jobber Aura. Outcome: Tyrant 7.5/10.
3. Batman vs. Iron Fist: Same tier start, both heroes. Batman's gadgets probably give him the Power Set advantage. Then we add in Batman's Jobber Aura. Outcome: Batman 8.75/10 or 10/10 depending on the current strength of his Jobber Aura.
4. Warrior Madness Thor vs. Sun-dipped Superman: Same tier start, both heroes. Both plot device boosted. Power Set better for Thor, but probably not enough to swing a one tier shift). As we saw in JLA/Avengers, the dials on Supermans Jobber Aura go up to two tiers, with Thor's only one. Likelihood of DC allowing Thor to defeat Supes: 2.5/10. So we have to allow Supeman defeat Thor 3 times before they'll reciprocate and let Thor win one back. Probably amounting to Superman saying "You may be able to defeat me Avenger, but, do you really want to."

Feedback?

Any comments? Is this article right? Is it wrong? Did it help you? Confuse you? Give you a laugh? Did you know all this already and I've just stated the obvious? Are my definitions wrong? Are my examples in the wrong tiers? Should I add more examples, if so who? Feel free to email me with any or all the above (craig@immortalshandbook.com) and let me know what you think. I appreciate all constructive criticism.